I was probably suffering from withdrawal from hymns last week. So, we went to a mainline church. Like other churches they are all different but in this case it was all hymns sung to an old and interesting pipe organ. There was an altar boy carrying a cross followed by the pastor in his robe. Of course there was the children's sermon, special solo's, lots of scripture reading and a shorter than we are used to sermon.
I don't know how this would have played with post Christian, unchurched, never been churched seekers. But, the church was pretty full, the people and the pastor seemed to have at least affection for one another and they loved God. This church had all of the foibles and failings that all of the current pundits ridicule, but they worshipped and loved God.
Now, I'm not suggesting we take an ecumenical turn to the left or something. But I am beginning to suspect that with all of the interest in new things and all of the talk about emergence, there are still a large number of folks who just want to love and worship God and are not all that interested in some of the discussions. I wonder of some of these folks in their own quiet and unassuming way are at least as authentic in their faith as those who talk about being authentic?
About Me
- Pastor Bob
- I am the senior pastor of Calvary Bible Fellowship Church in Sinking Spring, PA.
Number
Journey to the Promised Land
6 comments:
Well, Hans, I always appreciate prayer and we all need discernment.
I have done some research, actually, and we definitely would agree about the condition of some churches. There is no doubt, from reading and from observing, that some of them appear to be apostate.
However, some aren't. Just like some baptist, evangelical, independent or whatever other brand or label you might use are not necessarily exhibiting the love of God in all avenues of life.
So, given the opportunity, I thought I would go on an exploration to see just how far various camps have drifted, and along the way have found many who are truly seeking after God through His word.
Thanks for praying.
Come on, Pastor, admit it; you just want to wear the robes!
All kidding aside, Hans raises the very real point that seeking experience over seeking God can be a dangerous road. Crafting a service to simply impart an experience is certainly something very culturally relevant, but not something that will ever necessarily enable anyone to see God any more clearly.
I've always found it very interesting how detailed the NT is in describing our relationship with God and yet is fairly silent when it comes to worship service style and practice. Beyond some basics, and the instructions on deacons and overseers, it seems to imply that everyone at that stage was on the same page (based on the worship style of the Jewish Synagogue perhaps) or that no one saw any reason to pay much attention to worship style.
The fact that worship styles and practices have been the root of so much dissension amongst Christians seems to indicate that worshiping "in Spirit and in Truth" is either something much simpler than we ever imagined or is something that we will never actually attain till the hereafter (i.e. so why worry about it).
So perhaps the question is not so much what style (or even substance, since we all agree on the Word), but how do we effectively take worship with us outside of a Sunday service? What can we do that will leave a large enough impact to enable us to survive spiritually on our own till the next time we can worship corporately?
Upon reading your reply, I realize you don't understand the heart of the emergent church and church growth movements. Have you considered the part the New Age Movement plays in this? Rather than having me try to explain about these issues, and give you my opinion -- I really think it would be helpful to check out these resources.
For starters there is Lighthouse Trails... http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/links.htm
Also there is:
One truth Ministries
Let us Reason Ministries
Christian Research Service
Berean Beacon
Understand the Times
I pray the more you look into what other biblically sound people/organizations have to say, the more you will understand my extreme concern for you and your church. The Lord said in the end times, there will be great deception. If a good friend hadn't pointed out this information to me, i would be just another "sheep" blindly following error. I continue to pray and trust that you will be open to the truth.
In Christ alone,
Hans
The thing I love about you, Pastor, is that, in the last 15 years that you have been my pastor, you have always encouraged me to be like the Bereans--to measure what we hear and learn against the ultimate authority, which is God's Word. We can't be out of the world. We are in it--and the Word enables us to remain in the Vine and I so appreciate what you are doing--and I'm excited about the questions and deeper digging into what it means to love God in this world. You are near and dear to us--and I also appreciate the example of grace that you show--especially to guys like Eric. Man, where’s the cane in the folds of the curtain when you need it (--:
Seriously, though, everyone is looking for experience. Experience is either what I'm used to (that which is old and comfortable) or what really makes me feel excited about God. But when it comes to really loving God--you have said in this post that the people at the mainline church really love God--what does that mean? For all the critics of the Mainline Church, they would certainly have more ground to feel less shaky than we evangelicals when it comes to Matthew 25 (although I guess that depends on how you interpret "my brethren.") When I think of truly loving God, I think of John 14:21--if you love me you will obey me. Stan and I were recently discussing the absence of suffering in the life of North American evangelicals—even though suffering is one important facet of the Christian walk. (Paul counted all things loss in order to know Christ and the fellowship of His sufferings.) Stan said something that I’ve been pondering all week. When you look at the statistics, we as a church in North America scarcely obey God. What does it mean to be "authentically" obedient?
By the way, Pinebrook was fantastic. The speaker was this "old" guy named Wendell Calder (spelling?). He's an old-time evangelist from Maine who speaks about 90 miles an hour with a mind that's sharp as can be. I was falling asleep during worship (not that it wasn’t a good “experience”) until he would get up there and have us hanging on every word. He preached on Philippians--what a great week!
Tell us what you are doing in August? What's the emphasis for this month for you?
Blessings and word to your beautiful wife.
Eric, when it comes to worship that is dangerous ground. Everyone has their own preferences and scripture is not overly definitive. A few years ago we structured a service to include as many of our senses as possible – smell (incense), sight (dance) antiphonal scripture reading, etc. For an evangelical church, at least at the time, that was probably bold. Some folks liked it others didn’t and there were probably many in between. The point was that scripture, at least in the Old Testament, included many of these opportunities. Since we are all uniquely made we seem to resonate in worship (as well as in other areas I suppose) differently. So, that can be seen as consistent with in spirit and in truth, as lone as it is consistent with worshipping in His Spirit and according to his truth. The problems arise when we dig in and fight for the style musically or otherwise that we prefer and then try to support it by misusing scripture or tradition.
Nan asked why I thought that church loved God. Part of it was the way they worshipped. First they sang. Really sang. All older hymns to an old organ but the congregation sang. I have been in many churches that were much more modern in all ways, some state of the art, where no one sang. They just stood and listened while the worship leaders sang. That doesn’t mean they didn’t love God but you couldn’t really tell from the way they sang. Second, they gave real prominence to scripture. They read it corporately, responsively, they had it read to them and they listened while it was simply preached. (Not as long as I usually do but longer than I expected). Finally, they seemed to love one another. They prayed for one another, they went out of their way to greet one another, they structured some events to work together to help some less fortunate and they had some planned fellowship events. You can only tell so much in one hour on Sunday but at least in some ways they were loving one another and keeping His commandments.
This month, I need to get my thoughts together, spend some time alone in prayer and write.
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